FaceBook Conversation With A Gay Preacher

I was a bit surprised that someone answered a question about me on FaceBook – “Richard just answered a question about John!” Out of curiosity, I decided to trace who the person was. Apparently, we had one common friend on FB and had recently made some comments on a question the common friend friend asked. To converse and get to know who this person was, I requested to become a direct friends, and as if by God’s plan, the person was online at the time and I asked if we could chat. He agreed and a conversation ensued.

As you would discover from the chat, the brother is a preacher who believes in homosexuality and supports its cause. He is American and his name is Richard.

After 90 minutes of chat, I thought a lot has transpired which can be insightful to others; so I sought his permission, and he consented that I can publish the chat.

Please note, I have not edited a single word, all the typos remain intact as we both wrote it originally. Not one letter has been edited. However, I have added names to each conversation, so that you can know who was saying what at any point and I also ask that you forgive the typos on both sides of our conversation, but I believe you will understand the conversation.

Please Read the conversation. You will be blessed.

Brother John:

hi

are you there, Richard?

Richard:

2:42pm

yes

2:48pm

hewllo

Brother John:

2:48pm

yeah, did you get my message?

Richard:

2:49pm

which would that be?

Brother John:

2:49pm

sorry, was it that I requested to be friends on FB previously?

… I was referring to a moment ago

Richard:

2:49pm

yes I received a friend request

oh yes when you said hi

Brother John:

2:50pm

I see, my apologies, I discovered that you made a comment on my wall and was wondering what it was all about

Richard:

2:51pm

If you are rerferring to a question I answered about you

Brother John:

2:51pm

yes. I don’t understand. can you enlighten me, pls?

Richard:

2:51pm

It is an application thayt comes up from time to time

Brother John:

2:52pm

Ok. Is it made by FB?

Richard:

2:52pm

the app. is when you”unlock ” things about your facebook friends you earn facebook coins

Brother John:

2:53pm

ah, I see 🙂 … interesting

Richard:

2:53pm

the program randomly selects names from your friendlist

Brother John:

2:53pm

now, it seems to me that you are a Christian

Richard:

2:54pm

definately

Brother John:

2:54pm

Cool 🙂

Richard:

2:54pm

I am a lisc. ordained non denominational minister

Brother John:

2:54pm

brilliant!

Richard:

2:54pm

i n the state of oklahoma

yes I love it

Brother John:

2:55pm

I just looked at your wall and could see that you support gay marriages as well

is that the case or am I mistaken?

Richard:

2:56pm

yes I do IU believe in a Lord big enough to l;ove all his children unconditionally

please exscuse my typing

Brother John:

2:57pm

Oh yeah, without a shadow of doubt, but I also believe that He abides by His own Word….. no, don’t worry about the typing

Richard:

2:57pm

ok

so how are you this day

Brother John:

2:58pm

Now, the Lord in His word, does not support nor give approval to gay relationships

…I’m good, thanks…. can we chat a little on this matter?

Richard:

2:59pm

sure

2:59pm

Brother John:

Gr8 🙂

I don’t believe in condemning someone who disagrees with my belief system, so I want you to be assured that my chat is not about condemnation

Richard:

3:00pm

cool

Brother John:

3:00pm

… it is express in many scriptures, both OT & NT that God calls gay relationship an abomination

Richard:

3:01pm

I disagre

Brother John:

3:01pm

if it is an abomination, how would a HOLY God tolerate it

ok, why? Please give me scriptures to back it up

Richard:

3:02pm

the Lord by my estimation of the Scriptures is speaking of things that happen in the temple

ie. ritual harlotry which involved both male and female

Brother John:

3:03pm

ok, give me the references

Richard:

3:05pm

well to begin you must go all the way back to sodom& gom. in ezk. 16:49 the lord describes the sin s of sodom & gom

Brother John:

3:05pm

yes

I’m following you…

Richard:

3:06pm

in the Pauline literature one must rememberr the locale where paul was preaching was mainly to greeks

Brother John:

3:07pm

sorry, b4 we go to Paul

let’s look at that Ezk16 again, we can’t stop at 49

Richard:

3:08pm

opkok

yes

Brother John:

3:08pm

look at vs 50, it mentioned pride & commission of abomination as well

Richard:

3:09pm

yes

Brother John:

3:09pm

so we can’t discover what their sin was by discarding vs 50

Richard:

3:09pm

it’s not specified

Brother John:

3:10pm

while a small sin is as consequential, homosexuality is not the biggest sin be4 God, it is the sin of pride

do you agree?

Richard:

3:10pm

no

how so?

Brother John:

3:11pm

ok, all the things mentioned in vs 49-50 brought the judgement upon Sodom, not just one sin as many religious people would make up believe

Richard:

3:11pm

yes

Brother John:

3:11pm

it isn’t just homosexuality, it was all these things in 49-50

Richard:

3:12pm

true

Brother John:

3:12pm

ok, that matter of “abomination” mentioned there, we see it being clearly defined in Leviticus 20:13:

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

Richard:

3:13pm

shell fish is also an abomination?

Brother John:

3:14pm

yes, but we know that, God did not make man for so many things

even scientifically

as shellfish may be forbidden, God never said it is an abomination, and whoever eats it should be stoned to death, all he said was that it would defile the body

Richard:

3:15pm

brother one must remember they are not talking about loving relationships th\ese were tribal peopl who when they were conquered werer forced to do all kinds of unspeakable things

Brother John:

3:16pm

… scientifically, God was very accurate, the body struggles to deal with all the type fo foods forbidden

but it is expressly written there: “If a man also LIE with mankind, as he LIETH with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

Richard:

3:18pm

so by yor estimation of the scriptures all gays should be stoned unto death?

Brother John:

3:18pm

… let us not add what it doesn’t say, it is expressly written there that God was talking about SEX

Nope. Let’s not jump the gun now.

I guess we are on a journey of discovery here. He says,

“You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me” ASV

Richard:

3:19pm

i suppose

yes

Brother John:

3:21pm

… I am reasoning with you on the basis of scriptures, not just what i think. As brethren who are born by the same Spirit of God, one of us is right and the other is wrong, we can discover that through the application “It is written”

… So here, in Leviticus, God was talking about a man and another man having sex.

Richard:

3:22pm

y

3:22pm

lieing together yes

Brother John:

3:22pm

and He (God) calls it an abomination

not Moses, but God Himself

…good

3:23pm

go ahead

Brother John:

3:23pm

So, if a holy God calls homosexuality an abomination, what right have you an I to say it isn’t?

so, we can go to the Pauline scriptures now, if you still want to make a point with it…. we have established a Truth in Leviticus

pls go ahead.

should I continue on my side?

Richard:

3:26pm

brother one thing I do not do is wrangle over the scriptures I have my beliefs

Brother John:

3:26pm

this is not wrangling, except if you want to CHOOSE what you want to believe to make up your belief system

I am not better than you, but The truth is meant to remove/dispel our darkness

the more of the Truth we have in ourself, the lesser the darkness

Paul, in his words, too as you were going to refer to, mentioned this matter, and calls it what God calls it.

…. Jesus made a conclusion on the matter in Revelation 21:8 “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” NASB

Richard:

3:32pm

i am so relieved that you were’nt gouing to be condemning

Brother John:

3:32pm

Brother, remember that God is bound by His Word…. He has exalted His Word above His Name

Jesus did not come to condemn…

neither would I.

But we are in a war – serious war. Adam failed in that war, but Jesus won it and we are to follow his example.

Homosexuality is a sin of the flesh.

Richard:

3:34pm

so if we folow jesus example he said what all that believe will come unto me

3:35pm

Brother John:

Yes.

But, His Spirit also said we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Richard:

3:36pm

we All committ sins of the flesh as you so put itnot all the same sin but all committ sins of the flesh

Brother John:

3:36pm

Yes. It is a war against the flesh & satan.

Richard:

3:36pm

no sin is greater than another

Brother John:

3:36pm

I will taking these things head-on soon… see my site, www.brotherjohn.org

Richard:

3:37pm

and as we all work out our own salvation weith fear and trembling

allow that to be done

Brother John:

3:38pm

1 John 15-17 says: Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

Richard:

3:39pm

yes we do

Brother John:

3:39pm

… We cannot run away from this war. That was why Jesus said “he that overcomes” we must overcome the flesh

Richard:

3:39pm

it is determining the will of the father in your life which malkes the difference

Brother John:

3:39pm

… lust of the eyes, flesh & pride of life…

Richard:

3:39pm

crucify it daily

Brother John:

3:40pm

but this is the will of the Father…. overcome the sin He calls abominable

Richard:

3:40pm

no

Brother John:

3:40pm

while sin is sin, He did not call all sins abominable

Richard:

3:40pm

all sin is abopminable

Brother John:

3:41pm

well, to an extent, I agree with you

Richard:

3:41pm

therewis no little sin and grweaterr sin my brother

Brother John:

3:41pm

because the smallest of sin would disqualify you from His Presence

Richard:

3:41pm

apparently not

as would you

Brother John:

3:42pm

Well, when I say “you”, I mean anyone.

Richard:

3:42pm

well it did’nt appear that way

this is why we mmust continually walk in forgiveness

and his grace

Brother John:

3:44pm

…Good. So, I cannot see why we should support anyone who wants gay marriage, seeing that God calls it abominable. Just like we would not support paedophile or robber who clamours for rights

… Oh yes. Love & forgiveness, are the essence of His grace

Richard:

3:44pm

it is better ytto marry than to burn with passion

Brother John:

3:45pm

that’s why the penalty of stoning to death has been stayed… then, if you want to marry instead of burning, follow HIS example

from the beginning; Male & female created He them

that is HIS will.

Richard:

3:46pm

ever heard the word eunuch

Brother John:

3:46pm

burning with lusts with respect to what HE calls abominable is still a matter of fighting the flesh.

Yes. There are physical eunuchs and there are spiritual eunuchs.

Richard:

3:47pm

yes for all his children

true

Brother John:

3:47pm

A man can be married to a woman and still be a eunuch as well

Richard:

3:48pm

a man can be married to a man and the same holds true

Brother John:

3:49pm

Anyone can do whatever they like, it does not mean God approves it

Richard:

3:49pm

correct

he does allow

Brother John:

3:50pm

God made a model for us in the beginning, we can either as children of obedience follow it or reject it as children of disobedience

Richard:

3:50pm

this is the sin as old as man himsel CHOICE

Brother John:

3:52pm

yes, He allowed it and said:

Romain1:28 “And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,”

and continues in vs 32: “and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.”

Richard:

3:54pm

and yet there is forgiveness

Brother John:

3:55pm

of course.

But, let’s see it this way. God says something is sinful, and I say because God is a loving God and full of forgiveness, I go ahead and commit the sin and stay in it. What do you think He would feel?

or should I bring it home a little?

Richard:

3:57pm

go

Brother John:

3:58pm

Assuming i met you and for some reason, I slap and injure you. Then I apologise, through the love of God, you forgive me; would you expect me to repeat the same action against you?

Richard:

3:59pm

so now I’m slapping thye Almighty?

lol

Brother John:

4:00pm

what’s the difference? He calls something abominable, I say, I can see but I have lust and I would still go ahead and disobey Him

Richard:

4:00pm

question

Brother John:

4:00pm

That’s no different from what Adam & Eve did in the garden

… go ahead

4:01pmRichard is offline.

4:01pmRichard is online.

Richard:

4:01pm

do you believe the almighty has a plan for your life?

Brother John:

4:01pm

Of course, talking with you is part of that plan

4:02pm

amen

Brother John:

4:02pm

Like in the case of Adam & Eve. God told them this is sinful, yet they went ahead and sinned. What did God do? Spare them? No, he judged them

Richard:

4:02pm

so is that which I believe as well as that which you do as well

Yes HE JUDGED THEM

Brother John:

4:03pm

So you mean His plan for you is outside what He has written in His Word?

Good.

God’s love & mercy will NOT stop His judgement as well (send as a message)

Your chat message wasn’t sent because Richard is offline.

4:04pmRichard is online.

Richard:

4:04pm

no but what I do day to day is not by myown dictates it is a part of His grand design of my life

Brother John:

4:04pm

God’s love & mercy will NOT stop His judgement as well.

Richard:

4:05pm

no

But thast is his pervue

nobody else’s

Brother John:

4:06pm

Exactly. I still go back to a statement I made earlier, it is a war – personal war, which must be fought and won.

Richard:

4:06pm

this is why we are called individually before ythe White throne of judgement

Brother John:

4:07pm

The White Throne of Judgement is not a place of condemnation, it is a place of reward. Please check that scripture very well

Richard:

4:07pm

which I will face with ful;l faith

Brother John:

4:08pm

there are two judgements in the book of Revelation. That of sinners (disobedience to God) and His saints.

Richard:

4:08pm

yes

Brother John:

4:09pm

It is appointed for a man to die once and after this this judgement

Richard:

4:09pm

yes

Brother John:

4:09pm

if someone has lived a disobedient life here on earth, he won’t get as far as the White Throne of judgement

remember He says, no abominable person will be allowed into His presence.

Richard:

4:12pm

wwe have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God

4:12pmRichard is offline.

4:12pmRichard is online.

Brother John:

4:12pm

as someone who lies is a liar, likewise is someone who commits abomination is an abominable person as in Rev 21:8

Ok, there is a life that is above sin brother.

I guess this is why I am talking to you today. God planned our paths to cross, so that I can share with you what He has done in my life.

> A life that is still falling into sin continually is a life that needs to be transformed.

That life is still ruled by the law of sin & death.

There is deliverance from the law of sin & death

Richard:

4:15pm

I’m glad we met

personally Ive ben celibate for 8 years does this help me?

Brother John:

4:16pm

me, too!…. That deliverance makes someone to start living above sin

and start living under the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus!

Richard:

4:16pm

true

exactlyu

Brother John:

4:17pm

… celibacy is good, and I commend anyone who has the grace to live it, but it does not liberate or exclude the person from the war of a fight against the flesh & satan.

Richard:

4:18pm

no kidding its always a constant battlew to keep the devil undr your feet

Brother John:

4:18pm

A person may say, “I am not a murderer.” all well and good, but if he hates his brother, he is a murderer

Richard:

4:19pm

I agree

This is why I walk in Lovbe

love

Brother John:

4:20pm

so, i may not sleep with another woman though married, but if i lust after her in my heart (which only God sees), I am as guilty as the one who goes to a brothel

Richard:

4:20pm

amen

Brother John:

4:21pm

so, my brother, I would encourage you to examine that part of your belief system, and fight

“take us foxes, the little foxes, that destroy the vine”

Richard:

4:21pm

as I would you and stay out of brothels

Be Blessed Brother John In Jesus mighty name

Brother John:

4:23pm

I have no doubt that God wants to use you greatly, but for as long as there are foxes in the vine, we would be delaying Him from using us

Richard:

4:24pm

He uses me daily brotherr

as I’m surwe he does you

Brother John:

4:25pm

Keith Green wrote: My flesh is tired of seeking God, But on my knees I’ll stay. I want to be a pleasing child, Until that final day.

Richard:

4:25pm

good stuff

I must break time for me to take some meds.

Brother John:

4:26pm

If there is any sin, flesh or satan, We must go back on our knees

ok, brother…. please read my new message at my site, you will be incredibly blessed (send as a message)

Your chat message wasn’t sent because Richard is offline.

END of conversation.

#####

Since you may have been blessed, please tell others, especially those who say they are gay believers or supporters to come and have a read. We don’t need another Gospel of Hate, but of love and understanding, we need to address matters the way Christ would have addressed them.

As you can see, this brother agreed that homosexuality is an abomination and also that a gay is an abominable person before God. He agreed to what GOD clearly defines homosexuality or being gay. If you are gay and have committed your heart to the Lord, I believe you still need to fight the good fight of faith on your knees. A holy God cannot condone abominable acts such as sodomy or paedophilia.

You must fight with your flesh as in the words of Keith Green, “…I’ll tarry in prayer until I become a pleasing child.” Fight on your knees in prayer and also put in place actions that will kill off the passion. For example, if you have been involved with another person of same sex, you don’t keep on seeing each other where just the two of you are secluded, while it is best to stop seeing each other, you may still see each other in the company of others who do NOT believe in such relationships. This is paramount to overcoming and killing the flesh (click the link and read the article).

Remember Joseph, he ran from Portiphar’s wife not with words but his feet!

Have you heard about an unpublished version of the Holy Bible? It is called the TWISTED BIBLE. Read about it here on November 24, 2010. I will be revealing some excerpts. It’s a MUST read for all believers. The time believers hide their head in the sand is long gone. You must face reality to survive! Check this site daily.

God bless.