FaceBook Conversation With An Atheist

Posted in: Spiritual Truths- Jun 18, 2013 9 Comments

This is a conversation I had with a self-proclaimed atheist on FaceBook in December, 2010. Please bear with a lot of typos on both sides of the conversation and after reading through the chat, I also discovered that there were times when we missed questions or answers or words were jumped. None of the main chat have been edited, except that names have been added for clarity. Hope it blesses or challenges your thinking.

Actually, I’d forgotten about this conversation until a recent comment by someone at one of our meetings. So, I decided to publish it now because I believe you may learn something or just be intrigued at the mindset of an atheist. The name of the man is actually Matt, but I am withholding his full name due to our agreement, which you will see at the end of the conversation.

Matt.

8:12pm

Good evening.

Brother John.

8:12pm

Hi Matt

Matt.

8:12pm

I’m off to get something to eat in a while, but what would you like to talk about?

Brother John.

8:12pm

Thanks for accepting me as a friend 🙂

my believe in Christ and the difference to religion because you seem to be an open-minded person.

Matt.

8:13pm

You mean; belief not believe.

Brother John.

8:14pm

Pls go and eat, I will be here for a while if you still care to chat today or any other time

sorry, that was a typo

Matt.

8:14pm

I’m happy to chat as long as you’re willing to be open-minded too. Are you happy to accept you may be wrong and there may be no God?

Brother John.

8:14pm

yes, my belief system

of course, I am open

Matt.

8:14pm

Cool. Fire away.

Brother John.

8:15pm

yes, it’s a possibility that there may be no God, but it also leaves me (and you) to the other possibility that there may be God

Matt.

8:16pm

I accept that as a possibility, but an exceptionally unlikely one.

Brother John.

8:16pm

the main thing about religion, irrespective of the name it comes across is guided by rules of dos & don’ts

Matt.

8:17pm

Sure, because ultimately all God’s are dictators. They require devotion else they promise death.

Excuse my errant apsotrophe.

Brother John.

8:19pm

I might have to reboot becos my firefox is running so slowly

Matt.

8:19pm

ok

Brother John.

8:20pm

so I’ll be right back

Matt.

8:24pm

Back?

Brother John.

8:28pm

yes

sorry, I lost the control over my FF, becos I had so MANY windows open 🙂

Matt.

8:29pm

ok

Brother John.

8:30pm

If you would permit me, I would say this first, that I have a point of reference and that is the Bible.

Matt.

8:31pm

But you don’t think that the bible is proof of God though I would hope.

Brother John.

8:31pm

Now, I said that religion is different from my belief…no and yes

no, because it’s not the only proof, and yes because it is an organised proof of God

do I make sense?

Matt.

8:32pm

I do not see the bible as being proof of God but i’m willing to listen to you tell me why you believe that is.

Brother John.

8:32pm

Good 🙂

the fact that I can chat with you tell me that you are a creature of intelligence

Matt.

8:33pm

I am a sentient being, yes.

Brother John.

8:34pm

and it also tells me from my little understanding of biology that you were not self-existent, but came into being at some point in time and space

Matt.

8:35pm

My father fertislised my mother’s egg and through the process of biology I was created.

Brother John.

8:35pm

if that is the case, my question is what is your original beginning?

by that I mean how did your (our) ancestors came into existence?

Matt.

8:35pm

Define being.

Are you going to argue with the… so who made your parents, who made them, who made their parents, etc….

Brother John.

8:36pm

I am not arguing, I am asking a question for a point of reference.

Matt.

8:37pm

So you’re asking when modern man came into existence?

Brother John.

8:37pm

well, if you want us to call it that.

Matt.

8:37pm

About 195,000 years ago.

Brother John.

8:38pm

Good. How do we know about this, if not for the record of science?

Matt.

8:38pm

Through fossil evidence.

Brother John.

8:40pm

Perhaps we should say paleontology gave us that evidence, isn’t it and we wrote about them for reference, isn’t it??

Yes?

Are you with me on that?

Matt.

8:40pm

Paleontology is the branch of science, if you feel to name is specifically.

*if you feel the need to name

Brother John.

8:41pm

yes, I am becos you referred to fossil evidence

Matt.

8:41pm

I referred to is as it was the answer to the question you asked.

Brother John.

8:42pm

Thanks. Now, that part of science gives us an evidential proof of life, and we have to believe it as such

Matt.

8:42pm

I have a question for you.

You believe in science and fossils, I presume?

Brother John.

8:43pm

Yes, to an extent, becos it is subjective for the simple fact that we don’t have all the physical evidence

Matt.

8:43pm

Right, so you’re going to be one of those debaters. Okay I see.

Brother John.

8:43pm

Can I continue on a fact I was trying to establish becos of the question i asked?

Matt.

8:44pm

You can if you start to type because rather than becos.

Brother John.

8:44pm

…. No, I am not trying to debate, in fact, you may know more than I do in science, or even be a professor of fossil evidence

Matt.

8:45pm

I suspect I can see where you’re going with this, but we’ll see. Do go on.

Brother John.

8:45pm

ok 🙂 my becos = because, I will start taking that in to consideration

Matt.

8:47pm

I see you’re making a BIG point as you’ve been typing for ages.

… or you’re a slow typer. 😉

Brother John.

8:47pm

What I was trying to establish was that paleontology (or fossil study) gave us reference by which we can recognise the existence of life at some point, likewise we have the same about God. The Bible combine the facts of nature to show us the evidence of God existence

🙂 yeah, I am

Matt.

8:48pm

Right, so where you see the hand of God I see physical understood processes.

Where I can nature you see intelligent design.

I do not look at a flower and see the hand of god. I see photosythesis, germination, etc.

Brother John.

8:50pm

Good. The fact that the Bible, which is a comprehensive compilation of God-proof tells me that plant which has a process of photosynthesis could not exist without the parameters set by that God

such as the Sun & the water which He created to be conditions for the existence of that plant

Matt.

8:50pm

Again we disagree. I do not see a reason that the parameters would need to be set by a supernatural being.

I an infinite or near inifinite universe would it not be impobable that somewhere within it there would be the correct parameters to support life?

Brother John.

8:51pm

The conditions set for that plant has at various times been tested in the lab that if you deprive it of these things it either dies or stunts

Matt.

8:52pm

How does that alter the point that I made.

Brother John.

8:52pm

I don’t understand what you mean by that statement

clarify

Matt.

8:54pm

I am not arguing that there need to be certain parameters in place in order for life to happen on Earth. What i’m saying is two-fold. Firstly that it doesn’t need to have had a supernatural being to put those parameters in place and secondly that in a near infinite universe that it would be very surprising if it had not happened.

Sorry, mean to type; “not arguing that there DON’T need to…”

Life on Earth is no proof of God. Life on Earth happened because the universe got to roll the dice for an inifinite amount of time.

Brother John.

8:55pm

Ok, if I understand you, you believe that there is nothing like supernatural life

Matt.

8:55pm

I am saying that the Earth could have happened with the need for it.

*without

(sorry, my typing is awful this evening)

Brother John.

8:56pm

I understood that bit, but I am also making a statement that you believe that there is no supernatural existence

don’t worry about typos, we all make it 🙂

Matt.

8:57pm

Neither of know that either way. I find it unlikely that there is an all-knowing intelligence whereas you believe there si.

Brother John.

8:58pm

Let’s not go as far as the all-knowing intelligence. Let’s check the rudiments of it first. Do you agree that there is supernatural existence?

Matt.

9:00pm

No. I thought i’d made it very clear there I didn’t believe there was.

Brother John.

9:01pm

Ok, then I would want to take it from that all the scientific and technological evidence we have about UFO existence is false then?

Matt.

9:02pm

Cite your evidence. I’ve seen none.

Brother John.

9:02pm

*I meant to say that I would take it from you…

Oh Matt, that means you are trying to say that you only believe on part of science and ignore the other

Matt.

9:04pm

What i’m saying is that if you believe there is concrete evidence of UFO activity then tell me what it is as i’ve never seen any.

Brother John.

9:04pm

there is an abundance of evidence today from all walks of life, across nations and groups that they exist

Matt.

9:04pm

Show me incontrovertable proof of aliens if you believe the proof exists.

Brother John.

9:05pm

so, the core of the earth that geology proves to us have been seen physically? They are only inferences…. if you go to released documents in government circles both here in the UK, US, Russia, etc that they exist

If you will permit me, then you may need to do more research before you can conclude that they don’t exist

as this is happening right in our time

Matt.

9:06pm

You’re back to proving negatives.

You’re asking me to do research to prove that UFOs don’t exist?

Brother John.

9:07pm

this is not a matter of negatives, these are things happening before us and with so much evidence around us being release in their abundance, we can’t argue against them

yes, because i am trying establish a simple fact that there is supernatural life

Matt.

9:08pm

By madly talking about UFOs?

Brother John.

9:08pm

It will be too parochial of me to say because there is no mention of UFO in the bible to deny the existence of these beings

Matt.

9:09pm

Well there’s no mention of dinosaurs in the bible either.

Brother John.

9:09pm

…. you don’t have to resort to a negative language

Matt.

9:09pm

So you’re saying that of aliens exist then that is an example of supernatural intelligence outside of the Earth.

Brother John.

9:09pm

well, you can say direct mention, all these were mentioned

yes, i am saying that categorically

Matt.

9:10pm

1/ Yes it would be. 2/ There is no proof that they do exist. 3/ Are you comparing aliens to God?

Brother John.

9:11pm

yes, i am, while your disbelief in the fact that aliens/UFOs exist, as a scientific or physical proof, it dampens the notion that you will agree that there is such a Being as God.

the issue is that you want to be able to see God face to face to believe that He exists

Matt.

9:12pm

I see no proof of God and I see no proof of aliens.

Brother John.

9:13pm

yet, the smaller things in life that are proofs of supernatural existence, you can’t fathom it

even when the PHYSICAL and SCIENTIFIC evidence exist

Matt.

9:14pm

(It doesn’t make it true just because you write it in CAPS)

Brother John.

9:14pm

Ok, I put this to you. if you see proof of UFOs, would you take that as a physical proof that there is a God?

Matt.

9:15pm

Firstly UFO stands for Unidentied Flying Object so if we know if is aliens it is no longer unidetified. If I see proof of aliens this has nothing to do with the existence of God. Any more than if I saw proof of God that would prove aliens exist. The two things are not related.

Brother John.

9:16pm

It shows that you’re not truly open-minded about the existence of God. Because if you research more into the existence of UFOs, you will see for a fact that they exist and their existence is supernatural

Matt.

9:17pm

So you keep saying but you won’t show me the proof you have of what you keep mistakenly referring to as UFOs.

Brother John.

9:17pm

They are quite related because the existence of UFO is supernatural compared to our existence

Matt.

9:17pm

You realise the flaw in your argument though, right? I mean I can point it out if you like.

Brother John.

9:17pm

Hey Matt, there is an abundance of data available for public consumption online and at government houses

I don’t keep any of these data, it’s not like my Bible, but they are available, and if you’re truly open-minded, as an intelligent person you are, you would be to sift through layers of genuine data and fakes

I am establishing a fact that you don’t know everything to make a conclusion of the non-existence of God

Matt.

9:20pm

But you’ve seen the evidence of these “UFOs” though so why would I need to sift through the fakes. I mean if I were you then i’d remember the details.

I said that the existence of a god was highly improbable and you also said that you could be wrong about it too.

Brother John.

9:21pm

… most of things you say are facts based on empirical assumptions that need a level of faith to incorporate them as a belief system

Matt.

9:22pm

Right, so it’s the old chestnut that science is a form of faith.

Your argument is that the existence of an alien lifeform would be supernatural and that would be proof of god.

So aside from the fact that aliens would still exist in our universe and would therefore still be part of nature and not supernatural.

Are you saying that these aliens could use us (to whom we would be the aliens) as proof of a god? No, of course not. SO why do you believe it makes sense the other way around? It’s a faulty argument.

Brother John.

9:23pm

there are many online, i didn’t come with the mind that you will need that proof, otherwise, I would got a few, I assumed that since there is a lot of proof of their existence, i can start from that perspective

Yes, but I would not want us to divert from the fact I was establishing

Matt.

9:24pm

It’s not a diversion to ask you to back up what you’re saying. You can’t just say there are aliens and offer no proof.

Brother John.

9:24pm

our finite knowledge & understanding does not give all the evidence we need to accept that all the reactions we see is the finality of events

The fact that there are aliens/UFOs mean that there is supernatural existence, that’s the point

Matt.

9:26pm

If you wish to use that as your argument then bring some proof to the table.

Else you’re just asking me to believe in one thing without proof in order to believe in a second thing without proof.

Brother John.

9:27pm

this page is an exaample: http://www.ufoevidence.org/

Matt.

9:27pm

What you’re now saying is we’re too stupid to understand enough to understand God. So why are we both wasting our time?

Brother John.

9:27pm

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Documents.htm

I’m not wasting my time

Matt.

9:28pm

You said; “our finite knowledge & understanding does not give all the evidence we need to accept that all the reactions we see is the finality of events.”

Brother John.

9:28pm

I would appreciate it if you can start with these two pages, and perhaps at a later time, I can get more proofs of these

Matt.

9:29pm

Which is basically saying that our puny human brains could not comprehend God.

Brother John.

9:29pm

Nope

I was trying to refer to scientific reactions such as photosynthesis – chemical reactions

Matt.

9:30pm

I’m happy to talk about why you believe in God but I do not have the time to get intio UFO research. If your proof of God entails me spending hours looking into UFOs then i’m afraid we’ll have to end the conversatino there.

Brother John.

9:30pm

or metallurgical combinations

as in your words, “classical avoidance”

I can discuss my belief in God with you without resorting to UFOs

but it will mean you should not demand the visibility of God then

because no one has seen God except His express image visible through the person of Christ

… I would be more than happy to discuss from that perspective

Matt.

9:33pm

Explain to me how UFOs (even though that’s not what you mean) relate to God. The only link I can see is just a flawed argument so perhaps you have a link that I can’t see.

Brother John.

9:33pm

…. but if you demand proof, I would like my basis of physical evidence of supernatural existence/life to start with UFO

Matt.

9:34pm

Okay, so the for the sake of argument let’s say alien life exists on Mars. Now tell me why God exists?

Brother John.

9:35pm

you keep saying “flawed”, if what has been presented as physical evidence of supernatural existence by experts of science & technology is flawed, then I rest my case.

Matt.

9:35pm

No, i’m saying that you linking the existence of God to the existence of “UFOs” is flawed.

Okay, so the for the sake of argument let’s say alien life exists on Mars. Now tell me why God exists?

Brother John.

9:37pm

Well, you’re still responding to that point sarcastically, if you want serious facts that link the two, I would be happy to discuss it

Matt.

9:37pm

How is that sarcastic?

Brother John.

9:37pm

because you said for the sake of argument

this is not a matter that can be argued, it is evidential just like we have proof of life through fossils

they are facts that cannot be denied anymore

Matt.

9:39pm

That’s not sarcastic. That’s me saying let’s suppose that I accept the existence of aliens. Tell me how this proves the existence of God.

Brother John.

9:39pm

Ok.

Matt.

9:40pm

I am known for being sarcastic and I was with you then you’d know.

Brother John.

9:40pm

The existence of UFOs proves that there is supernatural life

Matt.

9:40pm

If you’re defining supernatural of outside of the Earth, then yes.

Brother John.

9:40pm

if there is supernatural life, then our world exists within a supernatural enclave, and

if that is the case, there are supernatural beings all over around us, of which we have limited understanding and knowledge and in which God reigns supreme

Matt.

9:42pm

I don’t see how you get from A to B.

Define ‘Supernatural Enclave’.

If aliens existed on Mars, say, would you call Mars a ”Supernatural enclave.”.

Brother John.

9:42pm

the question is, where do the supernatural come from?

if they can see and visit us and we don’t know where they are – precisely

you cannot make that assumption that they are just within Mars

that assumption would be totally flawed because they can visit us and not the other way round

Matt.

9:44pm

I wasn’t. I was trying to get you to define ‘supernatural enclave’

Brother John.

9:44pm

Good

Matt.

9:45pm

So, can you define it?

Brother John.

9:46pm

supernatural enclave because they know where we are and have been spotted all over tour world, but we don’t know where they come from except from space

typo *tour = our

Matt.

9:46pm

Supernatural would mean outside of nature.

Brother John.

9:47pm

yes, as we define nature to be our world

Matt, I would just plead with you that before you make a final conclusion of the existence of God, you have to examine all known facts, it is not enough to examine partial evidence to make conclusions

Matt.

9:49pm

Well you believe and so far you’re pointed me towards aliens as proof and to be honest I think I believe even less than at the start.

Brother John.

9:51pm

here is a good video to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk

about proof of UFOs

Matt.

9:51pm

You say evidence and have provided none for there being a God.

Brother John.

9:52pm

God lives in the supernatural world and you have agreed that there is a possibility of supernatural life

so the fact that you can’t see God from that supernatural world denies His existence

Matt.

9:53pm

You’ve said that supernatural is defined as being within our universe.

Brother John.

9:53pm

No, I never said that

I said beyond our world – earth

Matt.

9:53pm

Okay, I have one question for you before I go and eat some food.

Brother John.

9:53pm

or outside our world – Earth

yeah, you’ve been great to delay your dinner 🙂

Matt.

9:54pm

My question is whether you accept that your evidence for God can also be applied to other gods such as THor, Zeus, etc. and if not then why?

Brother John.

9:55pm

Ah, that’s a very good one

if you want to accept that there is a God, then we can always discuss the matter of many gods

but to discuss that we have to agree on that point that they exist as supernatural beings as well

Matt.

9:56pm

So you accept that Zeus may be real?

Brother John.

9:56pm

oh yes, why not?

Matt.

9:57pm

Cool. So you believe in many Gods, whereas I believe in none.

Brother John.

9:57pm

I have not seen him before, but I can believe that he existed/excists

Matt.

9:57pm

As can I.

I just see no current reason why I should.

Brother John.

9:57pm

To believe in many gods or a God is a belief that there is a supernatural world

…. That was why I said you were being sarcastic

Matt.

9:58pm

I agree, but I don’t believe that aliens exist in a supernatural universe but a natural one.

Brother John.

9:58pm

after saying that ok, let’s agree that there is a supernatural world, now you’re denying the possibility of it again

Matt.

9:59pm

I don’t believe in anything outside of nature and I believe that aliens (if they do exist) exist within the natural world.

Depends on your defintion. You tend never to define your terms.

I do not believe in intelligent life outside of the natural universe.

Might aliens exist in the universe? Yes, sure. Do they prove a supernatural place in which God could inhabit? No, they don’t.

Brother John.

10:00pm

Well, you asked for some proof as to the existence of UFOs, I quickly Googled and gave you at least two websites to check scientific, technological and social facts from

Matt.

10:01pm

UFOs will exist in the natural universe, not a supernatural plane.

Brother John.

10:02pm

Well, again, scientific, technological and social proofs flaws your last statement

the abilities they have been known to portray is far superior to ours

Suffice to say, is that if you are really questioning the existence of the supernatural world, then you need to see the raw activities of voodoo & magic

Matt.

10:04pm

Really? Now you’re going to introduce voodoo into the conversation?

Brother John.

10:04pm

all these prove the supernatural existence….

it is part of it.

The introduction of UFOs into our discussion is to prove supernatural existence and that the point I was aiming it is that that is where God lives and from where He interacts with humanity

Matt.

10:06pm

I think we’ve gone as far as we can because you’re mentioning things that we disagree that there is proof for.

Brother John.

10:06pm

and it is in the same mould that we have voodoo & magic

what about the Proofs of UFOs, I brought up on purpose because of it’s scientific, technological & social proofs

…. these, Matt, are UNDENIABLE

the evidence of these is right in front of you.

That 2-hour video from YouTube is not the work of one man rambling on abstracts

Matt.

10:08pm

I get it. You’re saying that God is supernatural and therefore you’re

Brother John.

10:08pm

The other website also show proofs of these things

Matt.

10:08pm

you need to prove the supernatural world exists

and therefore you’re throwing anything at me that you think might be supernatural.

and random words like “voodoo” without explaining what you might mean by it?

Brother John.

10:09pm

I don’t need to prove that supernatural world exists more than it has been proven already by the existence of UFOs that I brought into the discussion.

Matt.

10:09pm

If you don’t need to then why say “voodoo”?

Brother John.

10:10pm

Yes, God is supernatural

because the practice of voodoo is an aspect of the proof of the supernatural

but there are not real scientific or technological proofs for voodoo, yet it is socially accepted that it is real

Matt.

10:11pm

Please treat me with a small amount of intellectual respect.

Brother John.

10:11pm

I have, but you’re rejecting it

Matt.

10:12pm

Some people believe it’s socially accepted that God exists. What has social acceptance got to do with scientific proof?

Brother John.

10:13pm

That is the case of voodoo, a proof that there is a supernatural world. But there is the case of UFOs another proof that there is supernatural existence

Matt.

10:14pm

Okay, finally because you’re pretty exasperating to talk to. Even if you could prove there was a supernatural dimension that would not prove there was a god (or gods_ inside it.

Brother John.

10:15pm

If you would want to prove to me that you respect you own intellectual prowess, then you would verify the widely accepted “Knowns” and disprove them first or humbly accept them as evidential

It will prove it, because it will also establish that their powers/abilities is far superior to ours and hence we’re unmatchable to their knowledge and hence we cannot come to conclusions about life without sharing their opinions or knowledge of it

Matt.

10:17pm

YOu

You may have to rephrase that last bit as it’s pretty incomprehensible.

I get the bit about if there are aliens then they must be of a higher intelligence than us.

Brother John.

10:18pm

Ok.

What I was saying was that because they are far superior to us, our knowledge and understanding of what Life is all about is too limited to make conclusions on their behalf such as the existence of a God who exists in that realm.

Matt.

10:21pm

Which I what I said earlier. You’re saying that puny humans are too stupid to understand.

Brother John.

10:21pm

…. that’s not being stupid

it’s being ignorant and they are two different things

Matt.

10:22pm

So your God has created humans without the intellectual capacity to know he exists and unless we’re happy to ignore our critical faculties and just believe in any old thing then we’ll burn in hellfire. To be honest you can keep that God.

Brother John.

10:22pm

Ignorance is when you don’t know…. stupidity is when you say you know, but what you know is wrong or absurd in the light of actual knowledge

No, my God created humans who are (should be) intelligent enough to recognise that of all the wonders that we see around us, there is a Supreme Intelligence behind that

*it

Matt.

10:24pm

Then he made me stupid because I don’t see it.

Brother John.

10:24pm

That’s why it says in His word that, “only a fool will say in his heart there is no God”

Matt.

10:24pm

Then your God is calling me stupid, and that’s fine.

Brother John.

10:25pm

I guess it’s more of the fact that you see but just choose not to acknowledge it

He’s not calling you stupid, but “a fool”

they are two different things

Matt, I would plead with you, try to check what exists as empirical evidence about the existence of the supernatural world before making up your mind, there is enough proof in this world for anyone who wants to see.

If you have a Bible or you may Google these:

Psalm 19 verses 1 to 6, Psalm 14 verse 1 & Psalm 53 verse 1

Matt.

10:31pm

That’s incredibly patronising.

Brother John.

10:31pm

Because I have utmost respect for your intellectualism

Matt.

10:31pm

To say i’m seeing something and choosing to ignore it. That’s putting words in my mouth. Please don’t.

One final time I will say that even if there was a supernatural dimension that doesn’t prove God is in it. It’s like proving that a box exists and saying – see – told you there dragons. They’re in the box. “Oh, can I see?” “No.”

Brother John.

10:33pm

Well, that’s the way it come across, especially for the YouTube 2hr video of proof, and the other site (http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Documents.htm) showing governmental proofs

It does, because the acceptance that there is a supernatural world would mean it has to be investigated thoroughly, which would now make me to take into my Bible to prove what science and technology are just discovering in the recent centuries as already evident in many thousands of years before with proper documentation in the Bible

– the common Holy Bible.

Matt.

10:36pm

Your argument is coming down to the fact that we’ll never know EVERYTHING and that you’re happy to pin your hopes that God is hiding in mankind’s ignorance.

Brother John.

10:37pm

God is NOT hiding in man’s ignorance

rather it is man hiding in the ignorance of His existence

If you’re truly open-minded, talk to Him to prove Himself to you, and you’ll be amazed at what will happen

Matt.

10:38pm

I did that when I was small. Nothing happened.

Are you happy to keep asking Zeus to make himself known to you?

Brother John.

10:39pm

Many have walked that path and have come to experience Him in a way that is beyond doubt.

I don’t follow Zeus, I am better than Zeus and that is the Truth

and if your mind can take it, yes, I am a god, and much greater than Zeus, but lesser than the Almighty God

Matt.

10:41pm

How do you know if you’ve not fully experience God. I mean what happens if you get to heaven it turns out that Zeus was the right one and you back the wrong horse?

*I mean experienced Zeus.

Brother John.

10:42pm

I would have had a terrific time backing that so-called wrong horse

Matt.

10:42pm

That’s good, because i’m having a great time being an atheiest.

Brother John.

10:42pm

because the life I live (which is available to all), is a fantastic one

Matt.

10:43pm

Plus if God is all-knowing then free will can’t exist and therefore to judge me would be pointless.

Brother John.

10:43pm

To be honest with you, there is no genuine atheist, you said you believe in fossils

fossils prove life when you were not existent

*I mean before you ever existed.

Matt.

10:44pm

When you say stuff that is so random and nonsensical it makes my head hurt trying to understand what you might be trying to say.

Brother John.

10:44pm

Free will exists, in fact, that’s the beauty of having Him in your life

Matt.

10:45pm

Free Will cannot exist with an all-knowing God, but i’m sure I don’t need to explain why since it’s self-explanatory.

Brother John.

10:46pm

If you decide to find out the existence of the supernatural, where, you will find God, you will discover that there are principles that govern the supernatural and anyone in that realm is subject to those principles

just like you and I have principles that govern our world and we’re subjected to them

Your free will gives you the ability to choose abiding by the laws of gravity or if you want to defy it.

Matt.

10:47pm

You’re saying we have the free will not to be bound by gravity?

Brother John.

10:48pm

That same free will guides you to choose whether you want to believe there is a God or not; he has not made us like robots.

I’m saying you have a choice to say you don’t want to be bound by the laws of gravity

and you can choose to defy it

so either you believe it exists or not is inconsequential because it is your choice, that is free will

Matt.

10:49pm

Okay, i’ve listened to about as much of this as I can take. I really, honestly don’t want to appear rude but you’re just coming across as mad and I need to go and do things now.

Brother John.

10:50pm

Thanks Matt, I appreciate your time and hope you will take those websites as starting point to re-examine the evidence of the supernatural world and hence God who is supreme in it.

Matt.

10:51pm

Since I explained countless times to you why I don’t see your arguments as logical I won’t be looking into UFOs right now.

I don’t see to be able to get across to you where you arguments fall down, so that’s a failing on my part.

Brother John.

10:52pm

If you don’t mind, I would like to save a copy of our chat and perhaps reproduce the conversation UNEDITED at my website.

Matt.

10:52pm

Sure, as long as you don’t link it back to me.

Brother John.

10:53pm

No, I am not that kind of person that will try to publicly run others down, however, I can use your first name, so it will not appear I made the conversation up

Matt.

10:54pm

Absoutely. I’ve no problem with that at all. As long as it remains unedited then I don’t mind.

Brother John.

10:54pm

my website is here: www.brotherjohn.org

Good. It will remain as is, even typos will remain. And you know we both made them 🙂

Matt.

10:54pm

So I see.

Brother John.

10:56pm

Honestly, I commend you that you chose to chat with me over having you dinner, I am humbled by that and hope that you will also take time not to look down on my suggestion about further reading.

Matt.

10:56pm

By the way – subliminal advertising doesn’t work.

Well, not in the sense of inserting “buy coke” into a frame of film.

Brother John.

10:57pm

Although, I may not reproduce it, I just felt it might be interesting for others to read. my intent for chatting with you is not because I want to post things on my website nor to prove I am better than you.

Oh, that one, there are other advanced levels of mind control that work or higher authorities are using over a mass, my blog is a limited space to prove so many things…. the issue of subliminal advertising is inconclusive.

If you need solid evidence along that line I can direct you to well-researched papers that will shock you as well.

Matt.

11:00pm

Your article implied it worked and did not say it was inconclusive.

Brother John.

11:01pm

I believe it works, but it is generally accepted that it is inconclusive, but I am on the side that agrees it works, that’s why I added it briefly in my article.

It’s not the point I presented in that article either

Matt.

11:01pm

Ah, right. I didn’t realise the article was about personal belief. It didn’t real that way.

Brother John.

11:02pm

there are various other mind-control techniques that have been proven to work.

🙂

thanks

Matt.

11:03pm

Sure, like hypnotism.

Brother John.

11:04pm

yes, but there are other stronger techniques used by governments and powerful organisations that work as well

Matt.

11:04pm

You do love your conspiracies.

Brother John.

11:04pm

It’s not about conspiracies, it’s about reality.

If you read that site very well, you will see a little biography about me, I know where I am coming from and I see things from that perspective, and I’ve like that for almost 30 years

So, a life that has been lived with all kinds of experiences will definitely have a little wisdom to say something about his existence, that’s where I come from.

Having said that, I don’t claim I know everything.

Matt.

11:07pm

Right, i’m off to bed but if you truly believe in supernatural stuff then win yourself $1,000,000.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

Brother John.

11:08pm

hahahahahaha LOL

that’s another thing I don’t have to win $1million to enjoy life 🙂

Matt.

11:09pm

I never said you did.

But put your beliefs to the test.

Because if they’re not worth testing then they’re not worth telling people about.

Give me a shout when you’ve decided whether to put someone else’s money where your mouth is/

Brother John.

11:10pm

If you lead the way in investigating the existence of supernatural life.

Matt.

11:11pm

It’s your belief system. I’m not here to do your work for you.

Brother John.

11:11pm

The truth is I don’t need $1million to prove the existence of God either

Matt.

11:12pm

That’s what the challenge is there for. For people that endlessly tell people they’re right but aren’t really sure enough to put what they’re claiming to the test.

Right, time for me to sleep.

Night.

Brother John.

11:13pm

I told you earlier, I am not here to prove that I better than you.

Matt.

11:13pm

I never said that.

Brother John.

11:13pm

Thanks, Matt. See you around.

Matt.

11:14pm

But if you preach things to be true then why be scared to prove them beyond all doubt? Night.

Brother John.

11:14pm

I am not scared. I’ll tell you something about competitions. It is the people who create the rules who win. (send as a message)

Your chat message wasn’t sent because Matt is offline.

11:18pmMatt is online.

11:19pmMatt is offline.

 END of CHAT

It may look nice and easy to call an atheist a fool, unfortunately, there are many unbelieving believers in the church, too. They claim to have a relationship with God, but their behaviours and lifestyles are far from God’s standard. They are called the “foolish virgins” “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” (Psalm 14:1)

When you know and see the Truth of God’s Word and choose to do the opposite, then you are a fool” (Numbers 12:11 & 1 Samuel 13:13).

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9 Responses to “FaceBook Conversation With An Atheist”

  1. Reply Soe says:

    : Hi , i am not sure if i should share the conversation you had with an Atheist on fb…you had mentioned the existence of alians …. some of the oned i know might not be able to comprehend the Connection that Father God may have with the not proven existence of supernatural beings …

  2. Reply Brother John says:

    Thanks for your comment, Soe.

    Aliens or UFOS are nothing else but demons, all I was trying to do is prove to him of the existence of spirit beings. Many atheist want to admit that there is a devil, but want to refuse that there is a God who is the Father of spirits (Hebrews 12:9).

    Atheism is a religion, either they want to agree or not. All the elements of their belief system is akin to the elements of religion.

    I would like to cite what Tobin Duby* wrote on this matter:

    “Children, I’ll argue, have a human right not to have their minds crippled by exposure to other people’s bad ideas, no matter who these other people are. Parents, correspondingly, have no God-given license to enculturate their children in whatever ways they personally choose—no right to limit the horizons of their children’s knowledge, to bring them up in an atmosphere of dogma and superstition, or to insist that they follow the straight and narrow paths of their own faiths. In short, children have a right not to have their minds addled by nonsense, and we, as a society, have a duty to protect them from it.” – Humphrey, Nicholas. Oxford Amnesty Lecture, 1997. (2)

    From these quotes, we are to gather that religion is characterized by

    1) a desire to destroy other systems of belief (in the quotation above, Hitchens’ in particular);
    2) confining a child’s horizons within certain views;
    3) dogma; and
    4) superstition (by which I assume he means belief in that which cannot be scientifically proven).

    As a Christian, I agree that religion is, and should be, “all” of these things.

    Atheism is no different.

    Tobin concludes:
    “I have a theory about where the acid hatred in quotations like these comes from. I think the atheists realize in some unconscious way that in order to destroy religion, they must take on more and more of the attributes of faith – conviction, dogmaticism, and the drive to convert – and that therefore, though they convert the entire world to atheism, religion would not even then be dead. Like one of Flannery O’Connor’s protagonists, the harder they fight it, the more they become conformed, and it must be intensely frustrating.”

    *Tobin Duby (http://www.classicalconversations.com/easyblog/entry/the-good-the-bad-and-the-incontrovertible)

  3. Reply Matt says:

    Atheism is NOT a religion.

  4. Reply vanessa says:

    Please explain how it is that you think you are a lesser God than the almighty God? What is the Biblical basis for this?

    • Reply Brother John says:

      By saying: “I am a god, and much greater than Zeus, but lesser than the Almighty God”, I meant that I have the power of choice to decide my future. I have the opportunity of living with the Almighty God in eternity, but Zeus (a fallen angel) does not have that privilege. Jesus promised that if I suffer with Him now I shall also reign with Him in eternity.

      See Psalm 82:6 & John 10:34.

  5. Reply Brother John says:

    Still disproving the existence of God? Why not read this: Isaiah 42:9 “Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”

    THOUSANDS of years before the Nation of Israel was born, God DECLARED what was going to happen after it (Israel) would have been born. God said that in the LAST DAYS, that nation would be born in ONE DAY – He declared that no god can do that. The fulfillment took place after the Bible had been fully written and sealed.

    No human being will have an excuse that there is no God, because we are witnessing the Almighty God proving His EXISTENCE!

  6. Reply Pam says:

    Brother John you sure got patience! Keep up the good work for the Lord!

  7. Reply sangha says:

    I am truly grateful to the holder of this website who has shared this enormous piece of writing
    at at this time.

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